埃隆·马斯克在接受传记作者沃尔特·艾萨克森的新播客采访时表示，他曾领导的DOGE实验最终以失败告终，证明了“我们根本不可能从政府内部解决赤字问题”。
Elon Musk tells biographer Walter Isaacson in a new podcast interview that the fizzled DOGE experiment, which the SpaceX and Tesla CEO once headed, proved there's "no way we were gonna solve the deficit from within the government."
- “解决国家债务的唯一途径是通过人工智能和机器人，”马斯克在接受作者采访时表示，该播客系列《沃尔特·艾萨克森的“创造者”》将于周二首播。“我们不可能通过试图‘节省’来达到那个目的。”
• "The only way we're going to solve the national debt is with AI and robots," Musk tells the author for a new podcast series, "The Builders with Walter Isaacson," premiering Tuesday. "We're not gonna solve it by trying to save our way there."
为什么重要：马斯克对艾萨克森的这番话 — — 艾萨克森是2023年权威传记《埃隆·马斯克》的作者 — — 承认DOGE是一次失败，但指出未来某届政府可能会利用日益强大的人工智能重新尝试解决这一问题。
Why it matters: Musk's comments to Isaacson — author of the definitive 2023 biography, " Elon Musk " — admit that DOGE was a flop, but point to the chance that some future administration will take a new stab at the problem using ever-more-capable AI. Zoom in:
细节：马斯克表示，削减开支的意愿“在总统府、众议院、参议院或司法部根本不存在。基本上，政府中没有任何有权势的人真正想要减少开支 — — 也许只有少数例外，比如像兰德·保罗这样的人。”
Musk said the appetite to cut spending "is not there at the presidency, the House, the Senate or the judiciary. Basically, no one in authority in the government whatsoever — with maybe a few rare exceptions [like the] Rand Pauls of the world — actually wants to reduce spending."
- “如果总统把这作为他的首要目标，也许我们可以做到，”马斯克补充道。“如果你试图解决赤字并制止浪费性支出，你就会结下很多敌人。特朗普总统喜欢被人喜欢。他不喜欢人们打电话给他，对……某些经费被叫停感到不满。”
• "Maybe if the president made that his primary goal, we could do that," Musk added. "If you try to solve the deficit and stop wasteful spending, you make a lot of enemies. President Trump likes to be liked. He doesn't like people calling him, being upset about ... some funding being stopped."
马斯克承认他“有点得意忘形，基本上是这样”，并且他最终“离开自己的公司太久了”。
Musk admits he "kinda got carried away, basically" and that he wound up being "gone for too long" from his companies.
- “我本应该做的，”他补充道，“是待在幕后……可能只维持一个月或两个月”，而不是他在白宫正式任职的四个月。
• "What I should have done," he added, "was be more in the background ... and probably only had it last for a month or two" rather than the four months he was formally in the White House.
- “我本应该比现在更早一些回去，专注于人工智能。”
• "I should have gone back and focused on AI a little sooner than I did." When Isaacson
当艾萨克森询问马斯克他在西翼的时间是否在某种程度上太过诱人时，马斯克回答道：“的确有点。我的意思是，有点酷……因为……我就在椭圆形办公室里，而所有这些重大时刻的决策正在被制定。”
asked Musk if his time in the West Wing had been too seductive, in a way, Musk replied: "It was, a little bit. I mean, it was kinda cool 'cause ... I'm just there in the Oval Office while all these, like, big momentous decisions are being made."
- 当被问及在特朗普第二任期一个月后的保守派政治行动大会（CPAC）上，他当众挥舞电锯的那一刻时，马斯克说：“那是个奇怪的周末。”
• Asked about the time he brandished a chainsaw onstage at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) a month into Trump's second term, Musk said: "That was a weird weekend."
- 当被要求进一步说明时，马斯克说：“让沉睡的狗继续睡吧，或者不管它了。”
• Pressed to elaborate, Musk said: "Let's let sleeping dogs lie or whatever." The big picture:
大局：艾萨克森本周警告说，史蒂夫·乔布斯和其他个人电脑时代的伟大创造者们，对那些与人类控制没有紧密联系的自主AI代理人会持谨慎态度。
Isaacson warned this week that Steve Jobs and the other great creators of the personal computer age would be cautious about autonomous AI agents not tightly connected to human control.
- 艾萨克森将这一警告收录在他于本周出版的、对其2014年关于数字时代的宏大历史著作《创新者：黑客、天才和极客如何创造数字革命》的更新版所作的新序言中。
• Isaacson includes his warning in the new preface to an updated edition, published this week, of his sweeping 2014 history of the digital age, "The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution."
幕后：艾萨克森告诉我，他之所以推出《建造者》播客系列，是因为他想向这个新AI时代的建造者们提出这些危险，并听听他们自己的话来说明是什么在驱动他们。
Behind the scenes: Isaacson tells me he launched "The Builders" because he wanted to press the builders of this new AI age on these dangers and hear in their own voices what motivates them.
- “马斯克是一位杰出的工程师，他正通过星舰、星链、神经链和自动驾驶电动汽车推动我们前进，”艾萨克森说。“但正如我在他的传记中所描述的，我认为他在政治和人际关系方面过于容易陷入黑暗和阴谋论。他的复杂性在这次采访中得以体现，正如我希望它在传记中也能体现出来。”
• "Musk is an amazing engineer who is pushing us forward with Starship, Starlink, Neuralink, and autonomous EVs," Isaacson said. "But as I describe in my biography, I think he is too prone to darkness and conspiracies when it comes to politics and people. His complexities come through in the interview, as I hope they do in the biography."
接下来：艾萨克森的播客系列由媒体公司万花筒制作，包括与彼得·蒂尔、亚历克斯·卡普、李飞飞以及达里奥和丹妮拉·阿莫代伊的对话。
What's next: Isaacson's podcast series, created by media company Kaleidoscope includes conversations with Peter Thiel, Alex Karp, Fei-Fei Li, and Dario and Daniela Amodei.
- 该系列的预告片表示，这些科技传奇人物“将敞开心扉谈论他们的抱负、什么让他们感到恐惧、他们如何思考人类，以及是什么驱动他们以如此之大、如此之快的速度进行建设。这些对话既亲密又迷人，有时甚至令人毛骨悚然。”
• A series preview says the tech legends "open up about their ambitions, what frightens them, how they think about humanity, and what drives them to build so big and so fast. The conversations are intimate, charming, and sometimes chilling."